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R94N

WWDC 2011; What did you think?

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R94N    3

Haven't posted for a while; hope no one minds if I create a general discussion thread because...I like that kind of thing.

 

I was pleased to see Steve up on the stage again, although he didn't do very much I did expect him to be the one announcing iCloud. Most of what was announced we knew already thanks to the rumours; I'm pleased with the changes to Lion and the iOS but since i don't own an iOS device it doesn't really affect me :(

 

So yeah, what does everyone else think? Do you think you will be making good use of the iCloud? What are/were your opinions of MobileMe? Personally I never really thought it was worth it. I noticed Steve took a dig at it in the Keynote ;)

Edited by R94N

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johnfoster    49

nothing to see here. but "so what" that there is nothing to see here. because it's the WWDC it means that everything being shown today is because Apple needs people to develop for these features. better to show the devs and the world what is coming then to just ship it an hope that somebody notices. this has been a disturbing ongoing trend in my opinion. that is: show it and ship it later.

 

maybe this is here to gauge some things before they become hot topics. there are three that come from today's talk:

 

1) Mac OS upgrade via the Mac App Store.

this is not going to go down easily. right now, App Store is all key'd to an individual user. there is not "corporate" version of the store. nor is there a way to mix two accounts on a single Mac. it's a table for one only. if this is only way to upgrade to the new OS it's simply not going to work. why? it's a bandwidth issue. there are a dozen Mac's on my network and unless there is a way to manage the bandwidth of a multi gigabyte download I'm going to have to manage each users upgrade to after hours over multiple days so that people can keep working during the day. the next question is "what about clean installs?" which happen because of hardware failure or just the desire to start over over.

 

maybe there is a feature like the one in Mac OS Server that will manage this. they didn't show it today. so the answer is no.

 

2) mobileMe users get screwed.

it's not a lot of money (from a 365 point of view) and you wouldn't have parted with a Benjamin unless you saw some value to the service. thing is, when a service goes from $100 to nothing it feels like a kick in the balls. I imagine there will be a class action suit filed in the next the week is out demanding partial refunds.

 

3) Apple to developers: we hate you. Apple to partners: we crush you.

somebody on Twitter points out that Apple just pissed on Dropbox, Sparrow, Instapaper, Readability, Remember the Milk, Facebook, RIM, & the carriers. but this is nothing new. back in the day circa 1988 there was a time that anything that a 3rd party did was fair game to become a new Apple feature. developers would make nifty features like INIT managers or background printing only to have the rug pulled out from under them in the next major OS release. about the only tool that continued to suck is the Finder even though there were a ton of 3rd party add ons to make it suck less like Boomerang, Drag Thing, or QuicKeys that Apple never bothered to copy. why yes I'd like sticky save locations by folder, a better dock and some way of recording actions that actually works. oh, sorry: NIH.

 

the carriers part is interesting because Apple has finally embraced that these guys just don't have enough bandwidth to make money that they want make. I don't have a problem in any way with WiFi only features. if the carriers want to arbitrarily limit the up/down to things that make them money instead of betting that being a dumb pipe is the future, let them. it is silly that they continue to fight a battle that is already lost. in the next two years we'll start to see this system unravel. where "the kids" find that cellular service is too limiting and start moving their use to "free" or "nearly free" solutions. that is, unless the carriers figure out that a flat fee "data only" plan makes them even more money. how and why? because data can be high latency unlike a phone call or a TXT that has federal rules about quality. nobody will ever complain about a IP phone call breaking up because that's what they do. but drop a call and it's bitch, bitch, bitch.

 

so it's an interesting future. I feel even more strongly that other platforms should be explored and used. it's not that I'm suddenly anti-Apple. but I feel like there are better or similar tools. and sometimes for lots less money. for example Adobe Premiere CS5 is working out to be a way better editor compared to the current Final Cut Pro. the thing about that is that using it is the same on a Mac as it is on Windows. and if I was editing all day every day I'd get a box that was more suited to my job. and that box would NOT be from Apple. HP and Leveno make some snazzy hardware. or I'd DIY a big bad box. my other tool is a word processor. and I have no allegiance to any writing tool. in fact, the keyboard is more important to me than which werp is in front of me.

 

wait, there's one more thing: the menu bar is getting Steve'd. look at lots of these screen shots. there is no menu bar. maybe this is a good thing. but I don't think it is. hiding features in a Right Click is something that I see as a giant step backwards for usability. maybe the mouse buttons should be named "point, select. open" and "act on in context". but this doesn't work on a surface. so the right click goes away and you get "hold for context feature" instead. if I had a time machine I would go back and make that happen. double click (to select) then hold for a menu. or click hold for the feature menu. stupid right click would never have been thought up.

Edited by johnfoster

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Ceoltoir    16

i agree the App Store only download has me concerned if only for the clean install option. i wonder what new macs will ship with now.

 

 

The iCloud syncing for things on my iDevices also has me wondering. i have a lot more music than i have space on my iPhone. At the same time i don't like to have everything on every device. My iPd serves a completely different purpose than my iPhone, and doesn't need all the same apps. i wonder how easy it will be to select what gets synced to each device.

 

Lastly my concern with cloud computing is bandwidth. When i am at home with a wi-fi connection i don't much care how fast things go back and forth. On the go i'd hate to see all my bandwidth for the month get sucked away the first time i sync a document through iCloud. Worse if there is no local copy of a document, and there is a continuous data connection.

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The iCloud syncing for things on my iDevices also has me wondering. i have a lot more music than i have space on my iPhone. At the same time i don't like to have everything on every device. My iPd serves a completely different purpose than my iPhone, and doesn't need all the same apps. i wonder how easy it will be to select what gets synced to each device.

 

 

That's a good point. I definitely don't have all my music on my iPhone that's on my Mac or iPad. It sounds like new purchases automatically get pushed to everything. I wonder if there's a way to later manually remove certain things or only have it sync certain playlists, etc.

 

 

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R94N    3

Lastly my concern with cloud computing is bandwidth. When i am at home with a wi-fi connection i don't much care how fast things go back and forth. On the go i'd hate to see all my bandwidth for the month get sucked away the first time i sync a document through iCloud. Worse if there is no local copy of a document, and there is a continuous data connection.

 

 

Yeah, it's a shame that almost as soon as things are moving into the 'cloud' and we're seeing more and more cloud-based services ISPs are introducing data caps for more people and restricting access.

 

 

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Dolphbucs    2

i wonder what new macs will ship with now.

 

I would imagine that new Macs would ship with install discs specific to the model you are buying ... like they always have or maybe even on a thumb drive. So, you'll get an install media for, let's say, a 27" iMac with Lion and all the bundled software ( iLife, iCloud, etc. ). As far as "clean installing", I would assume that you could just perform a clean install from your Snow Leopard disc ( anyone who upgrades MUST have Snow Leopard more on that in a sec ) and then perform the upgrade before installing anything else. Personally though, I'm not all that concerned about NOT doing a clean install to Lion. I'll admit I was quite nervous when Apple suggested that everyone do an "in place" upgrade from Leopard to Snow Leopard, but I tried it and now that I think about it I haven't done a clean install since. No issues with my system at all ( except a faulty airport card that I have to remember to get fixed before my Apple care runs out ). In fact, with any luck, the Apple store will wipe my HD and install a fresh copy of Lion when they do that repair this summer.

 

Getting back to the "Must have Snow Leopard" thing ... since you "must" have the Mac App Store to get Lion, you therefore also "must" have Snow Leopard installed. This leaves anyone out there with an intel Mac still running 10.5 out in the cold. I therefore suspect that we will see a boxed set offering iLife, iWork and Lion for $149 similar to what Apple offered last time around.

 

I can, however, see John's point about enterprise situations though. Come to think about it, and doing some quick math here, it will take a 5 megabit download connection almost 2 hrs to aquire that file .... and many don't even have that kind of speed yet. Not to mention the drain that's going to take on Apple's Mac App Store servers the first couple of days.

 

I have to say that I am quite pleased with myself on one point .... I am one of the few who timed their MobileMe membership "perfectly". Mine was set to expire June 24th, 2011, so I ended up paying exactly for the time I used and get 1 yr "bonus". One thing that I did notice missing with iCloud, though was support for hosting iWeb sites. Surely it would not cost Apple more than a few dollars a month to continue that service for the few that still use it. Granted you can still compose a site with iWeb and have it hosted elsewhere but I fear iWeb's days are numbered.

 

And now, the Elephant in the room .... I fear that, from the looks of things, and unless he's undergoing some major and very secretive "miracle treatment", we may well have just witnessed the last keynote from Mr Jobs. He did NOT look well at all. Very skinny and it seemed to me that his walking was very labored moving to and from the stage. His voice sounded very raspy and weak at first. He did seem to perk right up during the iCloud presentation and I detected a bit of the "old Steve" when he made the "why trust the people that brought you MobileMe" line, but I think this is more serious that any of us want to think about. If so, how fitting that the iCloud presentation would be his last. Being that when he first came back to Apple he talked about the PC being the "hub" of your digital life, being the one to announce the coming of "the new hub" just seems like a fitting closure.

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johnfoster    49

things that I've learned:

 

it's easy to make a DVD version of the Lion installer. after downloading your new kitty from the App store open the .pkg file, copy the .DMG file contained inside to a new location, the use Disk Utility to burn the DMG to a DVD. you could also put the image onto a small hard drive or thumb drive.

 

music stored in the cloud is a misnomer. your music doesn't go out the router, down the wire, around the corner to a server. if you delete some music "accidentally" a new copy will replace what you "lost" but it won't be "your copy" but the same thing. this is for anything you purchased from iTunes. for your "I ripped it myself" if you fork over 25 bucks your "music" will get matched.

 

MobileMe buyers have a few options. cancel now and get a prorated refund. canceling means that. you don't get to keep anything, not even your email address.

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Dolphbucs    2

it's easy to make a DVD version of the Lion installer. after downloading your new kitty from the App store open the .pkg file, copy the .DMG file contained inside to a new location, the use Disk Utility to burn the DMG to a DVD. you could also put the image onto a small hard drive or thumb drive.

 

Great info John and thanks for the tip. Would that .pkg file be in the HD/Library/Receipts folder like what happens during a software update or would it be someplace else since it is coming from the Mac App Store ?

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johnfoster    49

for some reason the "store" puts the installer in the Applications folder.

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pwbeninate    0

3) Apple to developers: we hate you. Apple to partners: we crush you.

somebody on Twitter points out that Apple just pissed on Dropbox, Sparrow, Instapaper, Readability, Remember the Milk, Facebook, RIM, & the carriers.

 

Not sure I agree with all of those:

 

Dropbox

"Docs in the Could" is very different from Dropbox. While Dropbox gives you online storage space for arbitrary files, iCould (at this point) requires apps to include Docs in the Could support. You can't just dump files on it. There has been not mention of continuing iDisk functionality. I'll still be using Dropbox.

 

Sparrow

I think they still have the corner on the lightweight mail client. Mail is moving that direction, but the interface is still quite different. Sparrow is really tailored to Google Mail, while Mail remains more generic.

 

Facebook

They refuse to cooperate. Where is the iOS app???

 

RIM

Partner??

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johnfoster    49

I don't agree with any of that either. I put the quote there as a point of reference. Apple has always taken 3rd party developer created ideas and baked them into the OS. in lots of cases these "things that became features" effectively killed the developer forcing them to rethink the business they were doing. having the Mail client built-in killed development of at least 5 tools although Microsoft has hung in there to this day with Enterage and Lookout.

 

some Apple "invented" tools didn't kill anything even though it seemed like a threat to 3rd party developers. a great example of that is CyberDog which was built on top of OpenDoc. this was kind of neat but it was a pig for RAM. the threatened products included Netscape Mosaic and Microsoft Internet Explorer. look what both of those tools became. OpenDoc was a competing format for OLE which was a Microsoft product. OpenDoc was eventually Steve'd while OLE eventually grew into ActiveX. another technology that was also really nifty was AOCE known to the 3rd party developers as Ouchy. there were a number of email companies in place that were doing brisk business so when this "technology" came along we all shuddered for a moment thinking "we're finished" and then we say the demo. ha! what a joke. although App-to-App messaging is something that still doesn't exist in any common or useable kind of way.

 

other "NIH" tools did do in a 3rd party market. Address Book for example. this tool was a couple a million bucks a year for a number of Mac companies during the 80/90's. back then nobody thought that $50 was too expensive for a address manager meaning there were lots of them to choose from. you could count on paying for an next.oh release once a year because upgrades made at least 50% of these companies revenue. so how many 3rd party address managers are there today? none that are simple. all of them are sales oriented and cost accordingly.

 

one tool that I cannot cry a river for is Readability which is a really good idea chasing a dumb business model. here's why… I don't always remember that I can push my toolbar R because some websites aren't so horrible to read (wired, NYT, sfgate, etc.). as long as Readability is a hobby project for a one or two man shop it works. but any bigger than that and you're asking for problems. which is why the "instapaper" guy will do okay for the next 18 months. although I have to tell you, I don't get that product. and even when it's biggest fans try to "show me the way" I can only shrug and say, whatever dude.

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Dolphbucs    2
... the "instapaper" guy will do okay for the next 18 months. although I have to tell you, I don't get that product. and even when it's biggest fans try to "show me the way" I can only shrug and say, whatever dude.

 

LOL I've always felt the same way John. "Let's make a quick and easy way to go back to pages you don't have time to read" .... ummmm, isn't that what bookmarks are for ? One of the first things I taught myself when I first got on the internet was to create a bookmark folder called "saved" or "check back here". If I'm reading an internet article that I want to refer back to later, I simply create a bookmark and store it in those folders. If I want to save the information permanently, I use software that will copy the website to my hard drive. I think that covers everything Instapaper does.

 

But let's face it .... there's a ton of software out there that simply repackages what the OS does ( on ANY platform ). Just look at how many screeen snapshot apps there are. Frankly I've never seen the point ... but heck, I've never seen the point of Quicksilver or Alfred ... to me Spotlight works just fine ( if you take the time to learn to use it ).

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johnfoster    49

most people never had the good fortune of watching Merlin Mann use QuickSilver. that boy could fly using it. if you asked nice he would give you a 10 minute demo that left you saying OMFFSM and you couldn't wait to install it on your own Mac to use. thing was, it was never as good as the demo. it was my experience that command TAB TAB TAB TAB to the open app followed by Command N (new) was just as fast compared to quicksilver key, app key combo, command to fire go… or however the key commands went together.

 

these kinds of tools always have their fans. even the command line guys swear that a CLI is faster than a GUI by several factors. all I can say is maybe. I will take a modern graphical based editor over VIM or PICO or emac any day of the week. why? because I'm really fast at hybriding between a mouse and keyboard commands. I can be productive in the command line. it's not like it's hard but it way more prone to making mistakes compared to a GUI in my opinion. case in point, if you ever have to direct somebody to type something it's incredibly tedious. tell somebody to type:

 

mv * ../tmp

 

and if you watch them it will come out

 

thelettermthelettervspacestarspacedotdotslashteeempea

 

and then there is the problem of V sounding E and T sounding like E and C sounding like E because they all have and EEEEE sound in them. maddening.

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Ceoltoir    16

Here's another thought i had today. How will we manage our music collections with this new cloud system. Let's say i buy in, and have my library either matched or uploaded (because i do have some obscure stuff). Later i decide i don't want a particular song or album in my collection anymore because i never listen to it. i wonder how hard it will be to delete those tracks from my iTunes match without them continuously re downloading.

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johnfoster    49

when you delete music from iTunes now you are presented with the question: Keep File (just delete from iTunes) or Move to Trash. it's possible that first option will become: Keep File (just delete from iTunes and iCloud).

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Ceoltoir    16

i'd hope so. The more i think about the iCloud service the more i wonder about customization for each device.

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