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JohnA

OS X Lion. Thoughts, impressions, gripes and stuff

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On my Macbook Air 1.86GHz Intel Core 2 Duo with 2GB of RAM, now that I upgraded to 10.7 Lion, I notice these apps very often "Stop Responding:

 

Safari

iTunes

 

My Twitter 2.1.1 isn't work right either.

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I'm still on Leopard and Tiger but this is likely to turn into a hot topic sometime soon.

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I upgraded day one. I thought Mission Control and Launchpad would be a farce ... mainly because Apple was stressing the multi touch functionality .... but now that I get to use it I actually prefer it to the old Spaces/Expose hybrid. Apple did a really nice job of building intuitive Mouse functionality into it as well.

 

The one thing I miss most though are the arrows at the top and bottom of the scroll bar ... but I'll get used to it.

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Hate to say it, but that MacBook Air is probably on the lower end of machines that will run Lion ... the biggest shortcoming being that it only has 2 GB RAM ( the bare minimum Lion needs ). I'll bet you often have iTunes and Safari runing with multiple other apps also. Try running those apps by themselves ( nothing else running ) and see if they crash any less.

 

BTW, this should be moved to a Lion thread

Edited by Dolphbucs

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I used to use Spaces a lot and really like Mission Control, particularly being able to switch from desktop to desktop quickly by using the arrow keys with the control key held down (though you could do that before).

 

Odd, though, that the desktops re-arrange themselves in Mission Control. So, instead of being arranged 1, 2, 3 … left to right, desktop number 2 is currently on the far right of the Mission Control screen, next to number 4! Also, the desktops lose their number when full screen mode is used; so desktop number 1, which has iTunes in full screen mode, is now called desktop 'iTunes' and I have no idea where it was before.

 

The only way I can find to launch Launchpad, using the keyboard, is control-F3, which selects the dock.

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The phantom Finder

 

I've got loads of Finder windows 'open' - I just can't see them!

 

… on ANY of my desktops.

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I am really liking Lion. Especially the multiple Desktops a big improvement on "Spaces" snowy cat.

The previews in spotlight are very useful.

 

Only thing I've noticed a couple of things on Google docs don't seem to work.

 

Seems quite snappy

 

I'm running Quad Core i7 with 4GB ram

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The only way I can find to launch Launchpad, using the keyboard, is control-F3, which selects the dock.

 

If you go to Screensavers preferences you can set a hot corner to launchpad.

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If you go to Screensavers preferences you can set a hot corner to launchpad.

 

Thanks!

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You know when you used to have no choice but to use Windows XP, either because you couldn't afford a Mac or you had to use a PC at work? Well, you must remember, then, how annoying it was to have the same bugs and weird glitches happen over and over again; those endless days and nights trying to work on something important when, no matter how many fingers you crossed and cracks in the pavement you avoided, you knew once error message X appeared, crash Y and endless pop-up Z would inevitably follow and there was nothing you or anyone else could do to avoid the inevitable restart / reinstall / dance on one leg chanting, "I'm a little teapot short and stout".

 

No amount of closing that self-opening "Something has gone horribly wrong" error box would save all that work you're still able to look at, but not save. At first you threw tantrums and screamed expletives at the top of your voice, about how Bill Gates was going to "pay for this", but eventually you just resigned yourself to the fact that it was happening and decided life's too short to care. "One day", you said to yourself, "I will own a Mac and all of this will be in the past".

 

At one point, when Windows Vista was announced, you hoped beyond hope that all, or at least most of these nightmares would end. But that day came and went with no change. Sure, Vista wore a different perfume to cover the stench and yes, the 'aero' interface wasn't so bad after all. But, underneath it all, was the same pustulating tripe that had ruined your life for the past millennia and, to make it worse, you knew for a fact no-one at Microsoft lost any sleep over it. "This wouldn't happen if I owned a Mac", you said. "Just you wait, Steve Ballmer, me and my mate Steve Jobs will show you good and proper, one day… one day!"

 

And then, it arrived. You magic'd that pay rise at work into Cupertino's finest export quicker than you could say, "I need it for work" to your wife and "I don't play games anyway" to your kids. "It's here!", you exclaimed. "I can't believe an actual Apple Mac is in my house and it's all MINE!!" You unboxed it like a kid at Christmas, pealing back each layer of the delicious packaging; smelling the inside of the box like a wine expert on a major four week bender around the French vineyards.

 

But wait! What's this? Four years have passed in the blink of an eye! "Ohh! A new Mac Operating System, OS X Lion is coming out! Yummy, I'll have me some of that!" you gushed!

 

Well, how stupid do you feel now? You drank the Kool-Aid and, for a while it refreshed the parts other sugar water can't reach. But then, like realising in the middle of a stage hypnotist's comedy act, that while you thought you were eating an Apple, you were really munching an onion, this happened:

 

Control + Scroll screen zooming randomly turns itself off.

 

Even basic Spotlight Searches in a window (Command + Shift + F) crash Finder.

 

Mail crashes all the time.

 

Safari has been replaced by a pile of turds. When it isn't refreshing inactive tabs from the network instead of cache, so you lose everything you're uploading, it's secretly closing windows for no rhyme or reason when you're not looking.

 

iTunes boot time is measured in aeons.

 

The "Something has crashed, send a report to Apple" window might as well be your Desktop Picture.

 

Finder periodically decides you don't need to see all your windows any more.

 

The list of applications that no longer work, if printed out, would stretch from here to the moon.

 

Launchpad is pointless. Utterly and completely pointless.

 

Opening Mission Control is like walking through molasses with cream cheese in your socks. It doesn't support a second display and the graphics layer tears through the UI like a hammer through porridge.

 

Fullscreen apps have a habit of just vanishing. They're running, but they're not showing.

 

Video playback in iTunes defaults to fullscreen but the playback controls go missing if you switch to another app without coming out of fullscreen first. Handy.

 

Command + Control + D pop-over dictionary takes a week to load and mysteriously insists on spinning up all your USB hard drives—as does unmounting all your USB hard drives.

 

Garage Band now hates you. So does Steam. And Pages. And Photoshop. And Automator. And Call of Duty. And Tweetdeck. Oh and you know how half the reason you put your Mac in your spare room was so you could use FrontRow as a media centre? Yeah, that's gone now. You can't do that any more. Sorry. You have to buy an Apple TV.

 

Question: Most of us would agree, without sounding sycophantic, that the MacCast is one of the premier Mac podcast anywhere on-line, yes? So, in the last, say, two years, how many Mac users who comment here, e-mail Adam and otherwise engage in the extended Apple community on a regular basis, have you heard say something like, "I hope Apple subtly change all the things that are already perfectly fine, before they fix all the things that have been broken since OS X Tiger"?

 

By way of example: Drag and drop a selection of JPEG files you want to upload to your image hosting service of choice, from the Finder into the Open box in Safari. If the wind is blowing from the North and it's the second Tuesday of the month, the destination path will change to the location you're dragging the files from and the selection you want to upload will be highlighted, so all you have to do is click Send and await for the transfer to complete. But, if it's half past 4 and your second cousin twice removed is called Jennifer, they spring back into Finder and Safari looks at you like, "Pfft, since when have I been able to do that?" So you try again. Same thing. You try a third time. "Oh!", says Safari. "THAT kind of drag and drop! I thought you were losing your mind, you silly user! Sure, I'll do that for you!"

 

It's just a litany of silly little frustrations, which have always been there, but are now ten times worse. The most frustrating part being, someone, somewhere at the world's largest computer maker; the richest company in America, if not the world, has signed off on each and every one of these things as if they're ready for prime time. Senior department heads and top management—Jobs, Ive and Schiller included—the very people who RUN the company with more cash in the bank than the US government—has looked at each of these pointless tweaks and decided they're good to go!

 

It beggars belief. They should be paying us to beta test this for them, but because they were so afraid of having to delay it, because it just isn't ready, we're expected to tow the party line, nod politely and ramble on about having a slightly different User Interface, as if that somehow makes up for the fact iPhoto still sucks.

 

I mean, why on earth do I still have to open a music player to sync photos to my phone? And why couldn't they have done something about that, before they changed the way TextEdit Finds and Replaces text, so it's now harder to use than it was before?

 

Goofy scrolling, by default? Really? Let's put it like this. How many Windows users, with their sloping brows and their smug determination never to switch to Mac, have walked into an Apple retail store, in the last month, idled up to a spare machine and had all their preconceptions about the Mac being esoteric and "weird" confirmed in ONE touch of the upside down mouse?

 

Why do I now have to click three times to autofill my information on a form in Safari, when before I clicked once?

 

Why can't I Command + Shift + L any highlighted text to search for it on Google anymore? Which "genius" thought turning that feature off was a wise move? Yes, I know I can redefine my own shortcut key in System Preferences. No, I don't think that makes it OK. What does my Dad do when that no longer works? I tell you what he does, he rings me and says, "That bloody Mac you told us to buy keeps going funny! It won't search Yoogle anymore!"

 

Simply put, who, at Apple, in the full knowledge of their line manager, went into the source code for Finder and thought, "You know, I really should spend this month figuring out why Finder has been crashing every time you create more than 50 shortcut files at once, ever since OS X Panther, but I think what I'll do instead is disable the shortcut key that turns the volume up and down by single units instead of ten at a time."

 

How is turning features OFF an 'upgrade'? In what reality is OS X Lion worthy of the Apple name? IT'S A DOWNGRADE! Apple have become the thing they fear the most. They are the new Microsoft and Lion is their Vista. There, I said it.

 

Oh, sure, you'll come back at me with some pithy retort about Versions and Autosave and how "awesome" it is to swipe your fingers across a £60-a-pop mouse. But the fact remains, they've tinkered with things that weren't broken and ignored or made worse things that have needed fixing for nearly 10 years. You know it. I know it. We all know it. I think it's about time we started staying as much out-loud and force Apple to put this thing right as soon as possible.

Edited by MusicIsTheBest

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@MusicIsTheBest, wow. I enjoyed your post. I really don't think I've had the same experience that you've had, and thank God. Sounds awful. I won't make the mistake of being an Apple apologist though. There are many valid points in your post. Lion is definitely not a finished thought and Apple seems to be beta testing some new ideas on us. That's not to say the OS is bad, but I think few will disagree that it's rough around the edges. The reality is with Lion Apple is trying to re-invent the OS and they are not afraid to break some eggs to do it. I wouldn't worry too much about Windows users with the "sloping brows" though, because even this version of OS X with it's warts is 100 times better than anything they've got. OS X Lion is Apple's 4th major generation change for their OS. I see OS X 1.0-6.0 as one, 7.0-9.0 as another, OS 10.0-10.6, and now 10.7. Unfortunately I think they are going to need some time to flush things out. Certainly this is as major an OS change as the move from 9.X to 10.0. They are trying to fundamentally change the ways we interact with the OS and that is going to feel foreign and awkward for a while. But just like when some worried about the move from a proprietary OS to a UNIX based one, the warts will be removed and the rough edges polished. In the end I think we'll end up with a shinier and brighter new thing that others will once again attempt to admire and copy.

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"We have to get over the idea that for Apple to succeed Microsoft must fail" - Steve Jobs

 

It's not about being better than Windows, it's about being better than OS X Snow Leopard—and Lion doesn't even come close. A kangaroo nailed to a plank of 2 x 4 delivers a better browsing experience than Internet Explorer. An arthritic gazelle displays the contents of your hard drive, better than Windows Explorer. That's a given—hence why I prefaced the above with a compare and contrast to my days as a Windows user.

 

But Lion promised way more than it delivers in the real world. Yes, we'd all love to have the money to rush out and buy an iPad and a MacBook Air to complement it. Hell, I'd settle for a trackpad and another 4GB of RAM in the machine I've already got. But Apple have made a massive presumption upon their loyal user base with this upgrade. Yes, they're all about innovation and pushing through changes. That's part of the ride with Apple. We love them for it. But Lion highlights the importance of getting the balance right; between bringing something new, and tinkering where it isn't needed. This time around they've got that balance wrong, but I've been a Mac user long enough to know they'll get it right eventually. It just sticks in the craw that they've made too many changes too quickly, to the detriment of fixing things we've all been complaining about for many years.

 

Case in point: Normally I would write this reply in the Quick Reply box, below. But, instead, I'm writing it in TextEdit, because I can't trust Safari not to either crash while I'm in the middle of writing it, or to inexplicably start grinding the hard drive for 10 minutes, with the beach ball of doom, only to refresh the contents of the page from the network after it's done. Why? Who on the Safari development team decided that what would make the browser of choice for millions of Mac users better would be to randomly refresh tabs that don't need refreshing? And why did they do this at the same time as making auto-spell check slower and less reliable?

 

It's just not Apple-like to instil this kind of mistrust in their users. I don't like feeling as if anything and everything could and probably will crash for no reason at any time. It's like an echo of the past. We were supposed to have put that kind of thing behind us when we started seeing machines with more capacity on one chip, than was used at the whole of NASA during the moon landings. This quantum leap in processing power and memory speed has happened in our lifetime, and it's just not fair on people new to the Mac for we long time users to put a brave face on things, as if being able to finally resize windows from any edge somehow papers over the fact that FileVault still doesn't work and Rosetta has been uninstalled without so much as a warning dialogue box, to alert you to the fact that half your applications won't work without it.

 

If Apple want us to test their software for them and be open about the fact this is a public beta, I would welcome it warmly. I would still pay for the download and I would probably pay again for the full version, once it was ready. But telling people this is the finished product when it blatantly isn't, just stinks of exactly the sort of tactics we rightly accuse Microsoft of adopting in the past. I just never expected it of Apple and I am sorely disappointed in them for it. And I don't think I'm alone.

Edited by MusicIsTheBest

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Does anyone else have this funny feeling of Deja Vu back to when Leopard was first released ( Oct of 2007 ) ? All the complaints about stacks. All the complaints about how Apple did away with classic mode. All the complaints about the numerous quirks and glitches until 10.5.2 came out. Plus ca change, plus c'est le meme chose. ( The more things change the more they stay the same. ) And you have to admit that Lion is a MUCH more radical paradigm shift that Leopard was to Tiger. Thats' why, since it had been almost 4 years since that last MAJOR revision to OS X, I decided to perform an absolute clean install when I upgraded. I discarded all the old plugins and Power PC apps I had been using and jumped in with both feet .... and voila .... no issues with the OS. Oh yeah I have a couple of apps that aren't 100% Lion ready, but nothing I can't live with. Convenience unfortunately has its price.

Edited by Dolphbucs

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... as if being able to finally resize windows from any edge somehow papers over the fact that FileVault still doesn't work and Rosetta has been uninstalled without so much as a warning dialogue box, to alert you to the fact that half your applications won't work without it.

 

Sorry, but I really don't think you can lay the Rosetta thing on Apple. The elimination of Rosetta has been WIDELY publicised since at least March 2011. IMO, any reasonable amount of research into Lion that I would expect anyone, especially a long time Mac user, to do before upgrading, ( like checking the specs for compatibility with your hardware ) would show the Rosetta issue. Every OS upgrade "breaks" certain software, that comes with the territory, so why would a person NOT do a little fact finding to see if their most important apps would all run ? In fact I would argue that the elimination of Rosetta would ONLY effect long time Mac Users. Those who have recently switched most likely are running nothing but Universal Apps at the least. If "half your apps" are Power PC versions, you probably shouldn't even be running Snow Leopard as those apps certainly have not been updated in years..

Edited by Dolphbucs

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Sorry, but I really don't think you can lay the Rosetta thing on Apple. The elimination of Rosetta has been WIDELY publicised since at least March 2011. IMO, any reasonable amount of research into Lion that I would expect anyone, especially a long time Mac user, to do before upgrading, ( like checking the specs for compatibility with your hardware ) would show the Rosetta issue. Every OS upgrade "breaks" certain software, that comes with the territory, so why would a person NOT do a little fact finding to see if their most important apps would all run ? In fact I would argue that the elimination of Rosetta would ONLY effect long time Mac Users. Those who have recently switched most likely are running nothing but Universal Apps at the least. If "half your apps" are Power PC versions, you probably shouldn't even be running Snow Leopard as those apps certainly have not been updated in years..

 

 

Applications which need the compatibility layer to run certain binaries, where both the Mac and PC version of a given title come on the same installer CD, are effected. If you look at some games, for example, the .app container actually holds .exe files, which run inside a mini virtual machine in the game itself. Because in Lion the ability to do this is is now disabled, it actually affects some relatively new titles, such as Championship Manager 2010, Call of Duty 3 and I think Portal 2. Rosetta didn't just handily what used to be called Classic Mode, it also handled the ability to run certain kinds of Virtual Machine. At least, that's my understanding.

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Rosetta was what allowed Power PC apps to run on Intel processors .... it had nothing to do with Classic mode ... Classic Mode was what was used to run OS 9 programs under OS X. Apple made the switch over from PowerPC Processors to Intel Processors late 2005/ Early 2006. That means that developers have had 5 1/2 years to "get with the program" and make their Mac apps fully Intel compatible. That means, in my mind, the only people really affected by this are those still running poorly supported software which probably should be replaced anyway.

 

As far as the games you mention, Lion has been in the hands of developers for well over a year now. Should not the responsibility for seeing that an app works with a new OS that the developer has been given the opportunity to work with that long fall mainly on the developer ? Look, with every OS upgrade on every system, there are apps that will not transition well. It happens with Windows, it happens with OS X, it happens with Linux ... heck, it even happens with iOS and Android. It's just the nature of the beast.

 

Now, some are also having issues with Apple components as well ( Safari, Mail, etc. ) but as I pointed out ( and I believe Adam alluded to also ) many ( if not all ) of these issues never seem to crop up on systems that have performed a clean install with a fresh/manual migration. This leads my "logical computer mind" ( LOL ) to the conclusion that these problems are the result of what was on people's systems before the upgrade. How many extensions or 3rd party add-ons did someone have on Safari ... how many plugins were put on Mail and iTunes ... what other software had someone played around with installing that might have added something in the background that still tries to launch even after the upgrade ? Yes these are the same issues people have when they upgrade from one version of Windows to the next, but that's only because NO OS manufacturer can ever cover the bases on EVERYTHING a particular user has done with their system before.

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I think we're in danger of arguing about agreeing. I know some changes are necessary, I just don't understand why they have to be implemented before things which have been broken for a long time are fixed. In my experience, as detailed in my original post, many of these things which bugged me from Tiger onwards have actually been made worse.

 

I'm not one for installing plug ins and I rarely tinker with Terminal commands to alter the way the system behaves—certainly not with Safari and Mail.

 

I will say the latest .1 update does seem to have quickened things up a little. But most of the major gripes still exist. Perhaps I'll reinstall from scratch at some point and report back on how it goes.

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Sorry, but when I tried to edit my posts lately on the forum using my work Windows 7 machine, the formatting gets all wonky. I guess some of the posting issues MTB has been haveing aren't Lion based but due to this forum software LOL

 

 

Edited by Dolphbucs

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I think we're in danger of arguing about agreeing. I know some changes are necessary, I just don't understand why they have to be implemented before things which have been broken for a long time are fixed. In my experience, as detailed in my original post, many of these things which bugged me from Tiger onwards have actually been made worse. I'm not one for installing plug ins and I rarely tinker with Terminal commands to alter the way the system behaves—certainly not with Safari and Mail. I will say the latest .1 update does seem to have quickened things up a little. But most of the major gripes still exist. Perhaps I'll reinstall from scratch at some point and report back on how it goes.

 

Well, in the case of waiting for delevopers to update their apps so that they will run with a new system ... they have had over a year already. One could argue that if you actually waited until a majority of the developers had their apps ready, you would NEVER release an OS update. I think all the game issues you cited above fall into that category.

 

One thing I didn't notice from you OP before is that you have been running Steam. Do you realize how much stuff Steam has running in the background ? If you have Steam in your menu bar, that in itself could be the problem with Safari. There have also been many reports of people having problems with Steam on Lion ... but can that really be blamed on Apple ? Steam is not run by Apple and if the guys over at Steam cannot get it to work on the new OS X version how can Apple be held accountable ?

 

The fact that I and others have had a MUCH better experience than you can only lead to one conclusion ... there has to be something different about the system you are running from those that have had little or no issues. You also state that ""things which bugged me from Tiger onwards have actually been made worse ". In my mind that also tells me that there must be something with your system different than mine, because I sure have not been having issues since before Leopard was released ( 2006 ? ) My current iMac is an early 2008 model with a 3.06 ghz processor and 4GB of RAM ... what are your specs ? If they are less, then perhaps your machine just doesn't have the horsepower to do what you want. The fact that you run Steam tells me that you are at least more of a gamer than I am ( I only do major gaming on my PS2 still ). As such, you must realize that when you read the minimum system requirements for any software they are just that ... the minimum it takes to run it at all.

 

If your specs are equal to or greater than mine then there has to be something on your system causing these issues. Have you ever performed a clean install ? Or have you always done an upgrade ... Leopoard over Tiger, Snow Leopard over Leopard, and finally Lion over SL. If always an upgrade there may have been something that occurred in the past, something as innocent as installing a free 3rd party app, trying it out and then getting rid of it by just moving the app to trash out of the Applications folder ... that left something behind somewhere else. I'll bet when you finally get around to doing a clean install, that will solve the vast majority of your issues.

 

Also, you mentioned you were having issues with Pages and Automator ... there is a new release of pages designed to run with Lion. Are you using the latest ? The upgrade may greatly solve some of the things that have been bugging you about pages since Tiger. And of course things are NOT going to run the same with Automator ... Lion is a major update and thus some scripting parameters are going to change ... making Automator workflows that worked in SL NOT run in Lion ... same thing happened in the move from Tiger to Leopard.

 

Finally, I, for one, don't cosider what has been going on in this thread as an argument. I've just been trying to give you explanations for why some things may not be working well for you on Lion and maybe even leading you in a direction that may help you improve your experience. And also, just trying to get you to see that this has been going on with EVERY OS out there since they began doing upgrades. It's NOT an Apple issue ... it's an issue with computers ... all computers ... even going back to the days of punch cards. I know cause I was there. Hopefully some of the info that's come out in this thread will help you along the sometimes bumpy upgrade path.

 

And it could be worse ... you could still be forced to use Windows machines like I have to at work ( see my last post LOL )

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Lyrical invective from MusicIsTheBest!

 

On the whole, I like Lion - I find it 'business-like'. But, for the first time I find myself in PC world: stuff that used to work just fine no longer works and the new stuff is buggy. The experience of using my Mac is no longer always enjoyable.

 

Apple's change of direction seems clear: if it isn't a portable gizmo Apple are not really interested in it. That's a shame, because I like my iMac and I want to continue doing so.

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On the whole, I like Lion - I find it 'business-like'. But, for the first time I find myself in PC world: stuff that used to work just fine no longer works and the new stuff is buggy. The experience of using my Mac is no longer always enjoyable.

 

The same thing was said by many back in the day when Apple switched from OS 9 to OS 10, and, to a lesser extent when OS X went from 10.4 to 10.5 and 10.5 to 10.6. Like I've been trying to explain to Music .... the stuff that used to work doesn't mostly due to lack of foresight on the app developers part and the new stuff usually is buggy for some until .2 or .3 comes out. It's always been that way, even in the Apple community ... it's just that some may never have noticed it before.

 

If you want things to always be as they are, that's fine ... just don't upgrade or at least, never choose to be an early adopter.

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I'm still using Snow Leopard because I have a few PowerPC Apps on my iMac (e.g. MS Word, Photoshop Elements). Nowadays their use is limited and hence do not merit the cost of upgrading.

 

BTW, there seems to be an abundance of verbal diarrhea on this thread! wink.gif

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True, but it was all posted back in August. I'd rather be too verbose than late to the table.:P

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