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ramtha

Microsoft at it again! Blood boiling! KILLKILLKILL!!!

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I've just watched a bunch of different videos from the Microsoft Developer Network's blogging forum http://channel9.msdn.com/forums.aspx?ForumGroupID=2.

 

One guy, who was showing off the "rich ways in which vista will make the experience more engaging for users" (I even hate the way they speak) was demoing the new Aqua... ...sorry Glass User Interface.

 

The nerve of those Microsoft guys is almost unbearable. I don't think I've ever experienced something so close to road rage while not actually behind the wheel as I did when I watched him nonchalantly showing off the way Vista will handle window switching and transparent menus and.. ..basically The Dock, Exposé and Quartz - which they are calling Avalon.

 

At one point I must have woken up the entire neighborhood by shouting out, at the top of my voice, "STILL IN BETA!! I'VE BEEN USING IT FOR YEARS, IT'S CALLED MAC OS X!!!!" - as this blinkered young drone churned out something about the whole UI being drawn in vector graphics for live re-sizing of windows and how they where "Still looking at what VRAM requirements will be necessary" to handle the whole bloated affair, as he showed off Vista's version of F10 All windows in current application exposé and Option Tab application switching. In other words, once this baby's ready, plan on buying some seriously expensive hardware if you want it to work as intended He even had the nerve to reveal that in order to slow down the whole thing, to show off how cool it is to your friends, you can hold down the Shift key. Any of this sound familiar?

 

But, you know what I began to realise half way through the video? If Microsoft are working on copying Mac OS, AGAIN, you can be just as sure Apple are working on something so mind blowing for the Mac OS of the future it's almost frightening!

 

It's funny how watching brain washed Microsoft developers developers developers developers developers developers can make you go warm and fuzzy about Apple, but that's exactly what happened to me. In fact I've never been happier about being a Mac user than I am right now.

--

Day dream moments of the day:

Apple, Sony and Google merger.

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Isn't it so sickly the way they look at the camera with a big grin on their faces as they are demo-ing their "new" software, as if to say, "Hey.. Look at what I invented here". It really is laughable, because as the previous poster stated, by the time release day comes, Vista will be soooo out of date, as Apple will have released Leopard, which should be even better than Tiger. What I can't understand is how M$ actually get away with this blatant duplication of system, design and functionality. Even down to the search function (Spotlight rip off). "Oh yes... It finds files for you as you type, and results includes e-mails, calender entries, applications, etc". Wake up fools... We will have been using that kind of functionality for over a year by the time Vista is even anywhere nearing release. It is comforting to know that what Mac users have had for a few years in Mac OS X, is now going to go worldwide in the form of Vista (albeit in a shoddy, less slick and buggy package), but on the other hand, it is frustrating to realise that joe public will think that Bill and his team of crack developers have actually designed and created all this cool stuff. Baaaah !!

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Isn't it so sickly the way they look at the camera with a big grin on their faces as they are demo-ing their "new" software, as if to say, "Hey.. Look at what I invented here". It really is laughable, because as the previous poster stated, by the time release day comes, Vista will be soooo out of date, as Apple will have released Leopard, which should be even better than Tiger. What I can't understand is how M$ actually get away with this blatant duplication of system, design and functionality. Even down to the search function (Spotlight rip off). "Oh yes... It finds files for you as you type, and results includes e-mails, calender entries, applications, etc". Wake up fools... We will have been using that kind of functionality for over a year by the time Vista is even anywhere nearing release. It is comforting to know that what Mac users have had for a few years in Mac OS X, is now going to go worldwide in the form of Vista (albeit in a shoddy, less slick and buggy package), but on the other hand, it is frustrating to realise that joe public will think that Bill and his team of crack developers have actually designed and created all this cool stuff. Baaaah !!

 

Your last point there certainly is the biggest thing which sticks in my craw. Basically it boils down to the fact that those endlessly frustrating conversation we find ourselves having with Windows drones, who think they're telling you something you don't know about user interfaces when a "new" toy comes out and they all jump on it like it's Windows only.

 

I've watched a couple of other clips from msdn since posting that first comment and there's one with the UI development team and.. ..look, here's the thing. These guys and gals are clearly very gifted coders and obviously know a lot about programming and so on, but it's like they live in this bubble where you have to use the same inflections in your speech as Bill Gates or Ballmer when talking to co-workers. Maybe it's their built in defense mechanism to avoid involuntarily bursting into laughter, I mean.. ..how can people so intimately involved in tech be so blind to the fact they are effectively reverse engineering someone else's two to three year old OS, namely Apple's - although I was struck by the amount of KDE looking things in there too.

 

As Mr. Jobs himself put it in Cringely's Triumph on the nerds documentry (Channel 4 PBS co-production several years ago based on the accidental empires book), "The thing with Microsoft is they just have no taste, and I don't mean that in a small way." Amen brother.

 

I would say though the one thing I do think is a good idea is the msdn forum vlog / podcast / blog itself. I think Apple could learn from the way the community aspect of the site works and lets users into the company and the work they are doing, even if that work is pretty disgusting and typically cheep. Personally I'd KILL to be able to watch internal vlogs and read staff blogs about what's going on at Apple, but we all know that's unlikely to happen given Mr. Jobs understandable liking for secrecy.

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I would say though the one thing I do think is a good idea is the msdn forum vlog / podcast / blog itself.

 

ahem. excuse me. Microsoft would like them to be referred to as blogcasts from now on. 'postcasts' indirectly refers to the competitions product. did you not get the memo? watch out, they'll hunt you down...

 

ramtha, you make some very good points here. i agree with just about everything you have to say, and it really gets me frustrated too when I see blatant copies of Apple developed features. i didn't see the videos you spoke of, but when you mentioned that they go "look! even shift slows it down!", i mean, jesus christ, how obvious can they make it? that just got my goat....

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Konfabulator anyone?

 

Yeah I hear ya.

 

I suppose, in a really twisted way, we should be happy people can see that Apple are still the company to watch for innovation in UI design and OS functionality. But it's just so typical of Microsoft to make like they are the ones who thought of it with no reference to where they got it from. I just hope once Vista is released Apple are able to launch some sort of legal battle to establish that they are the inventors of some of it's features.

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Holy crap! I didn't even know about the holding down shift thing... that's awesome! Sorry... still relatively new Mac user. I just tested it out as I was minimizing a window. Thanks guys! lol

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Try keeping shift held down while you're messing around in Dashboard... That's quite cool too. ;-)

 

Dashboard? Why? What happens in Dashboard with shift key held down?

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The same thing.. everything happens in sloooow mooootion !! In fact any Quartz effect/animation is slowed down by using the shift key. Expose, Dashboard, menu transitions, window animations, etc etc. ;-)

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The same thing.. everything happens in sloooow mooootion !! In fact any Quartz effect/animation is slowed down by using the shift key. Expose, Dashboard, menu transitions, window animations, etc etc. ;-)

 

Yeah, but what does the Dock actually do tat you can slow down? It pops up, it pops down. That's about it surely? Am I missing something?

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I'm not talking about the Dock. I'm talking about Dashboard. Do you have Tiger ?? Hold down the shift key and press F9, F10, F11 (Expose) or F12 (Dashboard). It serves no purpose, it's just a little "easter-egg" built in to OS X. Maybe it is to assist developers to achieve good animation technique...who knows ??

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I'm not talking about the Dock. I'm talking about Dashboard. Do you have Tiger ?? Hold down the shift key and press F9, F10, F11 (Expose) or F12 (Dashboard). It serves no purpose, it's just a little "easter-egg" built in to OS X. Maybe it is to assist developers to achieve good animation technique...who knows ??

 

 

Sorry, I'm getting mixed up with words here. I've been up for three days straight - you know what I mean? :D

 

Sure, I'm using Tiger. Just got all of-a-mixed up. Maybe some sleep is in order.

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We all agree Windows sucks right? :lol:

 

Hell yeah!

 

I was a windows user but i am 100% mac now. I know that Microsoft have ripped off Apple in a big way but i will give them credit for the design (and yes i do know mac ha transparency as well) i think most of it looks really nice, some bits don't, but most of it does so i will give them credit there

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We all agree Windows sucks right? :lol:

 

Hell yeah!

 

I was a windows user but i am 100% mac now. I know that Microsoft have ripped off Apple in a big way but i will give them credit for the design (and yes i do know mac ha transparency as well) i think most of it looks really nice, some bits don't, but most of it does so i will give them credit there

 

Yeah but you can't go on what it looks like from a dev build and some screen shots. Wait till you get to play with the release version. I'll BET the farm that it feels like shit. You're going to need a huge processor and graphics card to even use some of the things they've done with the UI.

 

I'll grant you, some of it is impressive in as much as they've managed to get something which fakes actual functionality to run on a variety of different system configurations. But by one developers own admittance, in one video I saw on that msdn blog, they've done a lot of work to make sure if something crashes, for example, it doesn't LOOK like it's crashed. So yeah, those annoying hung windows with none responsive buttons and whatever are gone, but that doesn't mean the application is actually working. It just doesn't guff up the look of your desktop anymore.

 

Having said that I think Sparkle looks like it might produce some interesting applications, if only because it gives the UI designer the power to rewrite code without having to actually know thats what he's doing, he just uses a toolbox which checks files into and out of .NET. Of course the biggest threat to everyone there is that the executable on the client side requires Vista. So you can expect to see a ton, and I mean LOTS of website you just can't use on any other platform in the next few years. And there'll be some big names in that list, make no mistake.

 

On top of all that, they are including Win32 code in a whole bunch of applications which will look like new, but they're just running old code in a new shell. The Win32 code pumps out to their new UI via Avalon, but it's still old code.

 

They haven't actually re-written ANY of Office 12 by the way. Most of the new look and feel of Word 12 is just that, a skin. The new features are based on new code, but things that didn't, in their opinion, "need changing", are just Win32 routines in a new wrapper.

 

You can't polish a turd. You can, however, put it in a box and tie a pretty pink ribbon around it and call it "New Improved Windows".

 

Most people won't know or even care that there's a brown loaf sitting at the heart of their Vista PC, but it is there, never-the-less. That's the problem with Microsoft. Their users are predominantly people who think Windows IS the computer, I'm talking about "regular" people who want to use office, send the odd e-mail and look at porn.

 

These are the people who mess it up for everyone, albeit unwittingly. They assume Windows is the standard. So everyone who's beyond what M$oft are doing, like Apple and Sun for example, are forced to play slow down on their new products. Not because the likes of us who are into tech aren't ready for the best their R&D departments can dream up, but because regular Joe Windows Boy is still trying to figure out how to disable the animated paper clip in Word.

 

"Normal" people need to understand why it's important they care that Microsoft are bad for everyone. It's not enough that they know it to be the case. Everyone knows they're constantly in court for this that and the other, but they need to be told what it all means. That actually Microsoft are damaging everyone by using their monopoly.

 

I don't have the answer for how exactly to do that, besides I'm short a couple of bucks on running my own network television show. But someone needs to do something, and never more so than in the next couple of months.

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Your response could not be any more right. With what i saw from VISTA is looks Windows XP service pack 3.

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Your response could not be any more right. With what i saw from VISTA is looks Windows XP service pack 3.

 

Well to be fair to them it is more than that. It ties into their long term strategies which require them to have a 64 bit platform, so it's not like it will ALWAYS have legacy code.

 

But early adopters are going to be disappointed with the speed, or lack of it, from their computer which previous to installing it was quite a fast machine - all just to run the same code except with a more up-to-date skin.

 

Coupled with the fact that those same users can go out and buy a Mac TODAY if they really care so much about having a smooth user interface I just don't see where Vista fits in - and that's the point really, it doesn't fill any unique niche - but they're painting it as being vital.

 

They're spending 100 million on PRE-LAUNCH advertising by the way, so I've no doubt it'll work for them on some level, but I highly doubt it will convince anyone who knows what they are talking about that Microsoft has changed it's spots and suddenly discovered how to build stable and secure operating systems.

 

Unless, of course, what they're not telling us at this stage is that the whole thing is based on UNIX! And let's face it, it's the only thing they haven't followed Apple on so far. Which itself tells you everything you need to know about Microsoft. Doing that would actually make them credible, but they're not about being credible, they're about making lots and lots of cash from forcing people into their way of doing things.

 

It's black and white, but "normal" people just don't care. There's an old saying, "People get the governments they deserve". And I think it's far to say the same thing about Operating Systems. Most people, present company excepted, don't actually deserve a real computer, and that suites Microsoft just fine.

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