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maxman

It "hacking" frontrow wrong?

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Hi everybody, i got a question for you all. On the last maccast adam told us about a site that his a link to article on how to install front row on "other" macs, i went to the site, it was very easy and only required one small step of some software that changed a few files to make it work, now front-row works and i love it.

 

But here's the thing, i am mac geek, but more importunely, i am a Christian.

 

So i guess what i am trying to ask, would u say this is a hack or a workaround. Because i wonder if apple does not put front-row out for everything else simply because the other macs don't have remotes, or because they want you to buy a new imac????

 

What do u guys thing, i mean if it where a song, i would say its wrong to download it off of p2p, and go buy it on itunes. But this seems like kinda a odd case because it is not something the apple sells.

 

Late me know what you think

 

In Christ

 

 

Max

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I have a car that is not for sale. It is my car, I own it, and I reserve the right to decide when I will offer it for sale.

 

Does the fact that I am not offering my car for sale give someone else the right to take it from me?

 

I believe that Front Row is the property of Apple Computers. I believe that this fact gives Apple the legal and ethical right to determine how and under what circumstances this program will be distributed.

 

I believe that it is wrong to take what is not mine without the permission of the owner.

 

I do not believe that my merely wishing Apple was selling Front Row gives me the right to take it without authorization.

 

I think programmers have a right to make a living from the fruit of their labor.

 

I'm absolutely, positively not a Christian, however I find the Golden Rule to be an excellent moral compass.

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As Jobs would say, him being interested in buddism, that downloading frontrow would be bad karma. :wink:

On the other hand, if someone is not providing software to us normal users, then I'd personally consider downloading it in a "fuck you" way. :P

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Who cares?

It's not like it's for sale to us anyways. How else are we gonna get it? I'm not gonna get into an argument of its morale "rightness", because I will lose. But until he makes it available to buy, I will used the hack version.

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Hey again every one

 

Just wanted to let you know that thanks to the wisdom from "The Professor" i have realized that hacking front row is wrong and a quick erase and install later, i had a clean drive and a clean conscience

 

God bless you all

 

In Christ

 

Max

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Who cares?

It's not like it's for sale to us anyways. How else are we gonna get it? I'm not gonna get into an argument of its morale "rightness", because I will lose. But until he makes it available to buy, I will used the hack version.

 

How else will you get it? Buy an iMac G5. If you don't want to or can't do that, then do with out Front Row. Now matter how you look at it, It is still stealing, pirating, hacking, etc. You are taking property of Apple Computer that you did not pay for.

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It is an interesting question.

 

Are you depriving them of income if they are not selling it?

 

True its is unquestionably a breach of intellectual copyright and it is likely illegal. But the question was whether it was morally wrong, not whether it is illegal.

 

Downloading Frontrow is not the same as downloading a copy of photoshop. Apple is not losing a customer and it is definately not losing income.

 

Should Apple start selling Frontrow then it would be a different matter.

 

Personally I haven't downloaded it and I am ynlikely to do so, but at the moment it is just a toy and maybe even just a 'proof of concept' that it works on non-iMacs.

 

I would probably conclude thatas there is none who suffer from downloading and using Front Row it is not wrong.

 

(PS Also not Christian - but I am not sure whether that is relevant to this particular discussion?)

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Who cares?

It's not like it's for sale to us anyways. How else are we gonna get it? I'm not gonna get into an argument of its morale "rightness", because I will lose. But until he makes it available to buy, I will used the hack version.

 

How else will you get it? Buy an iMac G5. If you don't want to or can't do that, then do with out Front Row. Now matter how you look at it, It is still stealing, pirating, hacking, etc. You are taking property of Apple Computer that you did not pay for.

Thats why i said I would lose in a discussion of morale.

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It's really quite simple. It isn't licensed as free software that can be distributed..Since it isn't, then I'd say it's illegal to download and install.

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It is an interesting question.

 

Are you depriving them of income if they are not selling it?

 

I don't need my car to drive to work because I work from my home. I'm not selling my car

 

If you steal my car are you depriving me of income if I'm not selling it?

 

(PS Also not Christian - but I am not sure whether that is relevant to this particular discussion?)

 

The original poster made two references to his religion. I was making it clear that my response was not based on an interpretation of his religion. I do respect the fact that he is interested in applying his religious beliefs to his own actions, rather than seeking to apply his religious beliefs to the actions of others - as some people seek to do.

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Well i have to say that i agree with the point that even though it is not for sale it is still stealing. My only thought was that it was a hardware thing having to do with the remote, but front-row can run from the keyboard too, so that kinda invalidates that point. But if it was only because of the remote then i wound not see it any different then figuring out how to run tiger on and 75Mhz mac. But i think you guys are right it a feature of the new Imac, and its not our to take

 

 

God Bless

 

In Christ

 

Max

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Everybody's doing it!

jk jk

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But if it was only because of the remote then i wound not see it any different then figuring out how to run tiger on and 75Mhz mac. But i think you guys are right it a feature of the new Imac, and its not our to take

Ummm, you can buy Tiger and have fun installing it on any machine you want..

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I have a car that is not for sale. It is my car, I own it, and I reserve the right to decide when I will offer it for sale.

 

Does the fact that I am not offering my car for sale give someone else the right to take it from me?

 

I believe that Front Row is the property of Apple Computers. I believe that this fact gives Apple the legal and ethical right to determine how and under what circumstances this program will be distributed.

 

I believe that it is wrong to take what is not mine without the permission of the owner.

 

I do not believe that my merely wishing Apple was selling Front Row gives me the right to take it without authorization.

 

I think programmers have a right to make a living from the fruit of their labor.

 

I'm absolutely, positively not a Christian, however I find the Golden Rule to be an excellent moral compass.

 

I can't put it any better, so I will quote it instead.

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If we're talking whether it is moral or not... then yes, it is wrong! That's a no brainer. If you download it and only use it once or twice - hey thats cool, Apple has lost no money, and that you will probably buy (or recommend buying) Front Row.

 

On the other hand, if you are using it alot, that is definately wrong.

 

It's a similar discussion to using OSX x86. Of all the posts I've seen by the people using OSX on generic PC's, tell how they love OSX, and would have never tried it otherwise! It's making Apple money because those people will eventually buy a Mac, because it's a superior product.

 

Well, that's my $.02.

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quote]It's really quite simple. It isn't licensed as free software that can be distributed..Since it isn't, then I'd say it's illegal to download and install

 

Sure, but the thing is that they aren't offering it as software to us that we could buy if we wanted without buying a whole computer. Therefore, I have no problems using it illegally considering that they are being rather mean to people who want to use it by forcing them to buy a whole computer. You get what you dish out as they say.

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quote]It's really quite simple. It isn't licensed as free software that can be distributed..Since it isn't' date=' then I'd say it's illegal to download and install[/quote']

 

Sure, but the thing is that they aren't offering it as software to us that we could buy if we wanted without buying a whole computer. Therefore, I have no problems using it illegally considering that they are being rather mean to people who want to use it by forcing them to buy a whole computer. You get what you dish out as they say.

 

If you want it badly enough to even consider buying a new computer for it (or more realistically, have the train of thought that you are showing) then I think it's time to stand back and look at what this poor excuse for a program does. I am sure it's nice and pretty, but really, how useful is it? At least there is a benefit to ripping off OSs and large, expensive software tools like Adobe Creative Suite and the like. FrontRow adds no functionality to your Mac what-so-ever. Is it worth breaking the law for?

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It's really quite simple. It isn't licensed as free software that can be distributed..Since it isn't' date=' then I'd say it's illegal to download and install[/quote']

 

Sure, but the thing is that they aren't offering it as software to us that we could buy if we wanted without buying a whole computer. Therefore, I have no problems using it illegally considering that they are being rather mean to people who want to use it by forcing them to buy a whole computer. You get what you dish out as they say.

 

That still doesn't make it right. It's a shame the way some people operate.

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i don't know who said it, but i am going to agree with them, if you download it just to see if it works, cool whatever. We are mac geeks thats what we do, we like making things work that normally don't. But really guys what part if illegal don't you understand, i have the same thing to say to people who speed. You would not steal money from a bank, even $20 cause thats illegal. So don't steal software (and i admit i did download front row, but i did delete it soon after when i can to my senses) don't steal music, and don't speed.

 

And thats my $.05

 

God Bless

 

In Christ

 

Max

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I am not sure about the car analogy. If I steal the car then I am derpriving you of a car as well as possible future use of the car.

 

But the software can be replicated, unlike a car.

 

I know that this can apply to other commercial software, music and other media. However, by copying those you are depriving the intellectual copyrights holders of income which by right is theirs.

 

By downloading and using Front Row you are neither depriving someone of a physical item nor are you depriving them of income.

 

Again I pose the point - Who suffers?

 

Whether you use it once or 1,000 times it is illegal. I think the question posed was on morality not on legality.

 

PS I want to again stress that I am playing devil's advocate. :twisted:It is illegal to download FR - I think we can all agree on that chesnut

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I am not sure about the car analogy. If I steal the car then I am derpriving you of a car as well as possible future use of the car.

 

Indeed you are correct, the car analogy does break down, so to speak, at that point.

 

It has no effect, though, on the issue of who owns the rights related to the program.

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I am not sure about the car analogy. If I steal the car then I am derpriving you of a car as well as possible future use of the car.

 

Again I pose the point - Who suffers?

 

It doesn't matter weather anyone suffers, it's wrong regardless. No one suffers from many things that are wrong, but that doesn't make them right.

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I Gotta agree with Eye_Doc on this one. If anything Apple gain out of the whole situation. I have no doubt that Apple got some useful feedback, better than any "focus group". The interest a hacked Front Row created, must have showed Apple that there's a future in this area.

 

Although I would say to anyone thinking about downloading the hacked version - don't bother.

 

I found Front Row to be functionally useless, takes ages to search iTunes and DVD player won't play VIDEO_TS folders copied to hard drive. Copying the iPod interface is definitely not the way to go with this sort product. I hope the next version is a lot better.

 

Hope to see it bundled in iLife '06 in January...now that I will buy.

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We are getting quite philosophical on this one!!

 

Surely the defining feature of whether something is right or wrong is whether it causes suffering.

 

Discuss....!

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